Hi there! This is the transcript of the interview I did for my Podcast, Never on the Backfoot’s 130th episode. Hope you like it 🙂
Neha: Hi, Jarrod! Welcome to Never on the Backfoot Podcast. I’m absolutely delighted to have you here and eagerly looking forward to the conversation ahead.
Jarrod: Okay. Well, I enjoy playing off the back foot, so I don’t know how it will go.
Neha: And, uh, to put it on record, I am an absolute fan of yours and this is like a dream come through, you know, actually interview you.
Jarrod: So yeah, just had to put it out there. I think you should dream higher.
Neha: So what got you first interested in cricket? You can talk about yourself as a cricket fan and also about some of your early memories of the sport.
Jarrod: Yeah, just a bit of a tricky question for me, cuz there is I, I, I was born into a cricketing family. There was no, there was no moment I got into cricket. Uh, cricket was always around, so, um, it was. I was either one and a half or two and a half weeks old. When I went and watched my father play cricket. Um, I was brought up at the cricket club. We were there three, four days a week. Um, so cricket is, was such a big part of my life that it wasn’t as if I chose it.
I’ve said this before, but it didn’t really occur to me that other people weren’t spending all day on Saturdays involved in cricket. I mean, I, I suppose you did at a certain level, but whether it was cricket or football or netball or tennis or whatever sport, um, that you played, I kind of figured that’s what people did. It was only when I got older, it, I realized that a lot of people don’t do that. And so, you know, I just kind of figured that you picked whichever sport you wanted or whichever sport your family liked, um, and sort of followed that and, uh, turned out you do actually have choices in life, but by then it was too.
Neha: Right. And how’s it like, you know, playing cricket in school or even your childhood for that matter? And what are some of your fondest memories?
Jarrod: Yeah, I played a lot of cricket when I was young. Uh, we would, uh, we would play, uh, quite regularly. I played a little bit of school cricket school. Cricket’s not really a big thing in Australia. Um, certainly not in the way that it is in other, other cricket nations. Um, so I played a little bit at school, you know, captains, my school, primary school team and all that sort of stuff and played, uh, I think mainly played one year of high school cricket. I played a couple of games for them as well. Um, but yeah, played club cricket from, I probably played my first game when I was, I think I must have just turned seven, uh, when I played my first game with a hard ball.
Um, and then from then on in, I played every Saturday and then every Saturday and Sunday, and, uh, when I was older, I played, uh, in the mornings in juniors, then I would play in the afternoons in seniors. So basically I would play WhatsApp about 130 overs a day, um, of cricket. Uh, and I, we would, I would train on Tuesday nights.
I would train on Wednesday nights. I would train on Thursday nights. So I played a lot of cricket, um, at that, uh, at a very, very young age. And then when I went into the workforce, I worked a lot of shift work. So probably from the age of about 20 onwards, I didn’t work as, um, I didn’t play cricket as much. And then I came to the UK and I played a little bit, but once I start working in cricket, it didn’t really, uh, uh, sadly I couldn’t really continue to play as much. Although I played a game, what day are we? The first day played a game on Tuesday this week, which is the first game I played since I broke my arm.
Um, so that was interesting is probably the correct term. Right. And even, you know, growing up who are some of your favourite cricket, this can be male or female. And who is it? Current. We didn’t really have female, uh, cricketers that we knew of in those days. Um, so I’m very, I’m much older than you. Um, so the only one I who know who Belinda Clark was, of course in, um, uh, oh God, I wouldn’t say, um, Catherine Fitzpatrick.
So they were probably the three known cricketers, but you didn’t really see them play, um, that much. So we saw get Zoe Goss playing a charity game, um, where she got Brian Lara out, which was quite a big deal. Um, but I wouldn’t have seen Belinda Clark play very much other than the odd highlight and Catherine Fitzpatrick. I saw a little bit more cause she was, uh, she maybe, uh, cuz she was a fastball. They’d show her a little bit, but again, you just didn’t see them that much. Um, for me, I grew up with Victorian cricketers as my favourite cricketers. So when I was very young, Dean Jones was my favourite cricketer I probably moved on to Matthew Elliot and Ian Harvey.
Um, yeah, within Victoria and then I loved, uh, Muk armed. Obviously then Shane Moore sort of came on the back of that as another leg spinner. Um, and they were really my favourites, I suppose, growing up. Oh, Martin Crow was the other one who used to dress like Martin Crow when I played. Um, so those are probably, that’s probably the main that five or six, um, players that had the biggest impact on me.
And then maybe as I got a little bit older, Stephen Fleming was someone who probably had a big impact on me, which is hilarious. Cause I ended up working for him as an analyst years later. Wow. and what are some of your favourite matches of all time? Now, these are matches. You can always revisit and you know, something that has always stayed with you.
Yeah. Um, there was an incredible series that had a lot of dull cricket and it was only two test matches. It was, it was the England S Lanka. I wanna say 2014, I think that’s right. Um, where both test matches came down to the last, over. Of the day and that just doesn’t happen in test match cricket. The first one was probably a little bit more entertaining than the second one.
The second one had some, certainly some turd moments in it, but to be at back-to-back test matches where they came down to the last day, uh, was absolutely incredible. I was obviously there for Ben Stokes at Headingly. I was actually in Headingly twice when we list in these be won in Headingly. That was quite a big moment.
Uh, Australia at, uh, Australia 2013, I think it was 2013 ashes, um, at, at, um, Trump bridge was an incredible match being at the game after Phil Hughes, um, uh, was killed, uh, in Adelaide oval was certainly a very big moment. Um, the first time that I really got into women’s cricket was the semi-final in the 2009 world T20. Um, I remember that game really vividly, um, and the way and the way that England plays battered, um, uh, Those are the games I’ve been to. Oh, well the 2017 women’s world cup final was incredible. Um, and so it was the semi-final actually the Hammond pre-cool game. Um, uh, I mean, I’ve been to a lot of cricket. I could literally continue to list games for you if you’d like, um, that’s the occupational hazard. I’ve seen a lot of shit cricket, but I’ve seen a lot of good cricket, right?
Neha: And on the same line, what are your fondest memories of, you know, having gone to a stadium to watch the match live? And do you have favourite grounds?
Jarrod: I certainly have favourite grounds. It depends on how good the food is. Um, and how easy it is for me to walk to the ground, which I like to do. Um, uh, I was at Afghanistan’s first 50 over world cup game. I was at Island’s first test match. Um, I went to a one-day in South Africa, Johannesburg at the Wanderers where it was one of the first times I’ve been in a ground where it isn’t the majority of the fans who were 35 years old.
Um, men, uh, there were so many women, there were so many kids there. It was an ethnically diverse from a, from a South African point of view, the crowd and the choir were singing. That was a magical, um, a magical place, uh, to be able to, uh, magical game, to be able to go to also, you know, all the world cup finals I’ve been able to go to. Um, women’s and men’s T20 and 50 overs um, the India, Pakistan world cup games, um, uh, AB you know, again on another level, uh, those sorts of things, but also just really cool things like a couple of years ago, I went and watched Hong Kong, Netherlands play, um, you know, being able to go to that kind of a game and see them and, and working with Scotland and being able to, you know, go to quite a few of the games with Scotland as well.
Um, grounds had the best fish Curry of my life in Eden guns one day, sadly, almost every time I’ve been back since they’ve done a. What I would call bad white people food. Oh. Um, when it’s just like cooking what you’re good at? Um, uh, yeah, I, I, I do, I, I’m very partial to the grounds I can walk to. So Trent bridge, if you’re staying in the right part of the city, for instance, um, Adelaide oval is another really good one that you can walk to mcg for other people.
Not for me. Um, I certainly want Birmingham is maybe pushing it a little bit. Um, so the grounds that are very central, um, in the middle of the city, um, I love the idea of, of, of walking to a, a stadium, um, in the morning, rather than, you know, being stuck in a taxi or a talk talk or a bus or whatever. Um, so those are the ones that probably stick in my mind that it’s not so much the ground.
Um, a lot of it is the facilities, right? It’s a good press box and all that sort of stuff. But my favorite, my favorite thing is really walking the grounds. I love staying, um, uh, at the SCG. I love staying on, um, God I forgot the road. Um, but the, um, uh, the road in Sydney, uh, just next to the ground, uh, you know, getting up in the morning, uh, getting a breakfast and then just walking across, uh, to the ground, any, any ground in the world that has that ability, um, you know, grounds like Pune and, um, uh, grounds like UA, you know, in the UAE or where you have to travel to even Cape town where you have to travel to the outside part of the ground, uh, that the city that’s not for me.
I wanna, I wanna be in the, in the center of town, feel the, I wanna feel the town and be able to walk there. Those are probably my favorite things. Everything else I would bore you about would be press box facilities, which I do very much have some strong opinions on, but no one’s gonna care. Fair enough. And, uh, I think what really fascinated me was the fact that you were born and brought up in Australia, but you later shifted to England. So why did you shift and you know, what prompted it? Could you also talk about your journalism career so far? Yeah. Um, I, I was a filmmaker and I had a film production company, Melbourne that wasn’t particularly going in the direction that we wanted it to go.
Uh, and so we, I would, I was writing a blog at the time and that blog got quite big and I was more than happy to stay in Australia. And I contacted everyone in Australia who covered cricket. I got one reply and that reply was, it was from kin peace, who basically said, um, I do run a cricket magazine, but basically I write every article in it.
So there’s no work for you here. Um, at the same time, people there was. Three magazines in England, all professional, or at least semi one of them was probably maybe a bit more semiprofessional or a couple of them were a bit more semiprofessional, but they, they were paying writers, uh, quick info, had a bunch of staff in, in the UK, which they didn’t in. I think they had two staff in Australia. Um, there was eight newspapers to write for where there’s really only two newspapers in Australia, there’s Murdoch and non-Murdoch. Um, there was an industry around cricket and the deputy editor of, of Western cricket is like, look, I can’t promise you you’ll have a good career, but there’s no one writing like you in cricket, if you come here, you will, at the very least get some kind of work. And so I kind of went on a bit of a whim really. I didn’t know how it would go. And I think I was very lucky in that because I like cricket and most people like their nation’s cricket. It meant that when I wrote this article would be about west Indies. This would be about Bangladesh. This would be about women’s cricket.
This would be about, um, S Lanka. This one will be about Australia. This one will be about India before me. That wasn’t a thing that people did. You did have the odd person who covered more than one jurisdiction. They might cover, you know, England and the west Indies or Australia and England or South Africa or England or, or whatever that may be. But there were no global writers because there was no business for it. Right. But the internet came at the same time that I was coming through. And, you know, very quickly it became clear that I was getting a lot of freelance work that other people weren’t getting because other people didn’t know anything about Chris GA when he came in originally and I’d been watching him for years and other people didn’t know about the problems with Bangladesh cricket, but I’d been following them for years.
And all those sorts of things just helped me, um, build a career and. Then the other side of it was cuz I was a filmmaker, we made videos and you gotta remember that YouTube started in 2005, I think that’s right. Um, someone will correct me in the comments. Um, I think it started in 2005, by 2008, I was putting tons of videos up of cricket.
Um, I don’t even know what the channels are now. They’re probably all dead. Um, uh, I would remix the, um, highlights packages that the ECB would put up, but with my own commentary, um, and we’d get hundreds of thousands of hits um before they took them down. Oh, um, uh, which was to be fair, well done to them for pick back in those days, you could get away with anything so well done for them for even noticing I was using their footage. But so, yeah, so, uh, and then when we went to the ashes in 10, 11, it was me and my friend Sam Collins. And he was like, I think we worked out there was gonna be something around 50 to 70 people writing on the ashes. How do you make a mark? And we’re like, let’s just make videos and see what that does. Um, and by doing that completely separated us from everyone in a good and bad way. Um, and CU him forward offered me a contract within two or three months of that, uh, ashes finishing, I think. Wow.
Neha: And you did write about so many cricket-playing nations, but my question is, how do you just keep up with everything and how do you know so much? You’re like almost, you know, this person knows so much about the game and knowledge is like all in compassing. How do you just keep up with everything that’s happening?
Jarrod: I think knowledge is helped by being old. Yeah. Like you’re talking about, I have been following world cricket since 1992. Right. That’s a long time. And when I’m passionate about something, I wanna know everything about it. So whether that be writing, whether that be filmmaking. Whether that be cricket, whether that be basketball, whatever it is, if I’m gonna learn something, I’m gonna learn everything I have. No, I remember Andrew Fidel, Fernando, once saying that he was actually shocked at the lack of skills I have even compared to a normal journalist, you know, I am, I can’t transcribe. Um, I don’t do shorthand. Um, you know, just, I remember the first time I wrote a news story for quick info. They literally said, what is this? Have you never seen a news story before? Um, so, but the things I’m good at, I would like to think that I’m as good at them as most people who have ever come before me, that is a really handy thing.
And so, you know, I think it’s a combination of, I always saw cricket in a different way than other people. I think that’s, I think it would be, you couldn’t argue that. Um, I have a huge intellectual curiosity. I think it gets, I think I get mistaken for being more intelligent than I am, but realistically it’s just, I wanna know everything. So I will try and find out as much as I can. Um, I do have a very deep understanding of cricket and I think I always did. Uh, and may, and maybe that, you know, being able to think about cricket better than being able to play, it probably limited my ability to actually be any good at cricket, but in this career has been a huge boom.
And then I just like to, I think I have, I think I have a very good, um, recall when it’s something I care. So if it’s something I don’t care about, honestly, I dunno if it was on your podcast or the last one I just did with someone, I couldn’t remember what day of the week it was. Um, but I can tell you about Graham and Pan’s a hundred against the west Indies when he was playing for Victoria in a tour game, in the nineties.
Right. And there’s something about that. Recall? I think the best sports writers have an incredible recall. That’s a really hard thing to do. I remember a former player. I was trying to get him into the business once and he said, look, the problem is I’ve played with everyone, right? You know, I’ve played with Coley and SWA and David Warner and Steve Smith and Ricky ping and, you know, own Morgan and whoever else this guy had played with, he listed them. It was incredible. The list and Karen Pollard and Chris Gayle, and he played with all these players. He said, well, I can’t remember anything. He said, so like, you hire me to do a media thing and someone asked me about Chris gal. I don’t have any stories. Cause I can’t remember them. If someone else says, what about this?
He’s like, oh yeah, that happened. And he tells you the whole story. And, and I think, you know, working with Rob SMIS and, um, George Dobel, um, w Thompson and these sorts of people that have this, you know, this incredible, you know, damn BS, another one, this incredible level of recall to be able to pick up this obscure thing.
And I remember, um, David Hops, the former Cricinfo editor once saying that he read the worst cricketer books in the world. So biographies, autobiographies, um, he, he read them when no one else would read them and they’re all almost dreadful, but so that he had two or three great stories to be able to tell every year that everyone else had missed.
And it’s that level of detail that really sets partisan sports writer, that level of fanaticism. Analysis. It’s why my sports writing course is called fans with laptops, which is also to take the piss out of English, uh, cricket or English, sports media, who thought they weren’t real journalists. Um, when it turns out that the fans with laptops are probably the better sports journalists than the actual traditional people who turn up at the game and transcribe what has happened in lead, the fans with laptops are the ones who wanna make sure what they’re writing is correct that have that passion that drives them.
And I think the majority of the best sports writers I’ve come across have that. And I think that that’s a luck thing, right? So, George, George Dobel has a, well, he would say a photographic memory. I’m gonna say a semi photographic memory, but he has an absolutely brilliant memory, um, that you, I don’t, I don’t believe you can teach photographic memory.
Maybe you can, you know, I don’t believe you can teach the levels of fanaticism that me and some other sports writers have to other people. And so there are things that I can help you to make you better at your job. There are things I can help you to make you a good sports writer. There are things I can help you to make you have a career, but to get to that sort of level, that I would hope that I’m on. And that many of the people who I’ve mentioned are on it really does take this inner passion and some weird inner skills that don’t necessarily come across. As you know, D Daniel Norcross used to score hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cricket games that didn’t happen like dice games and all those sorts of things that work and, and that helped him work, work out, run rates required and all that sort of stuff.
That mean as a cricket commentator, he can go. He can literally, he told me a story recently of Alastair Cook’s jaw-dropping when Alistair Cook tried to pass over the score, the, um, the score sheet. Dan Norcross, Dan Norcross went through the entire art scorecard of a team without anything in front of him. He just knew it. Wow. Those sorts of things that some of us have, um, that we had as kids. And the difference is now that we’re channeling them and using them, um, to make mediocre money in sports media. I mean, uh, you know, besides the, uh, mentioned qualities, you also write so consistently in your newsletter and for various other publications.
Neha: Now, could you also delve into your writing processes and in general, what keeps you motivated on a daily basis?
Jarrod: I’m a writer. So there isn’t a day of my life. I don’t write. And by that, I mean, I might not always write, but I might plan to write, or I might edit whatever, but there isn’t a day. Don’t do that. And I remember, I remember mark Nicholas coming to me once and he’d had this conversation with GD and hag, and he said, you won’t believe this, Jared, but Gideon writes every day. And I was like, yeah. And he looked at me and went, oh my God, you do too. And I went, yes, every day, even when I was doing analysis for cricket teams, I wrote every day, my notes were in writing form rather than note form, if that makes sense.
And, Mark Nicholas is a writer. He’s written a couple of books. I think of the top of my head. He obviously writes quite regularly for quick info and probably, you know, keeps he write for other people. But my right is not mark. Nicholas is not a writer. Right. It’s not in his blood. He doesn’t get kept up all night. The way that people like me and Gideon Hague might. Right. Where if we don’t get up at 2:00 AM to write that thing, we’re not gonna sleep. Right. And that is the level of writer that I’m on. So when you say I write consistently, that’s just the tip of the, that’s just the bits you see. You know, that’s not including the unpublished novels that I, you know, I have 90% finished and haven’t quite finished.
And the mini screenplays I’ve written over the years and the, the sitcom scripts and, you know, the semi bio autobiographical stuff that I’ve written that I’ve never had published. And, um, I’m writing all the time. So that, to me, it’s not, to me, writing is not hard work there. There’s a few different people. I think a lot of people get very, there are a lot of writers who hate writing, right? And that’s a huge percentage of writers that has never been my problem. I love writing. I’d much rather write than talk to humans, um, or leave my house. Um, you know, my wife gets frustrated. We go on holiday and I take my laptop and I’m like, but this it, I wanna, I’m gonna be able to write something.
This is, this is my fun time. Right. Kids are in. I’m not at home. I don’t have to do the laundry or, you know, clean the house I can write. Um, and so I think that’s very much part of that. My writing process massively varies and it varies more now that a lot of my work is in podcasts and videos. Um, I think traditionally, what I used to do is come up with a great idea and write it out in a stream of consciousness.
And while that is a, I think that gives occasionally brilliant results, but it’s not regularly consistent writing. And it would frustrate me that I couldn’t always write it the way I want. And I, what I did with my writing course that I mentioned before with, with fans with laptops is that came out of me, trying to work out how to become a better writer consistently. And what I did was I really deconstructed my writing. And so now it’s much more, what would you say it’s much more, um, Structure is probably the wrong way of putting it, but I know why it’s structured the way it is now, whereas before it would be structured the way it is, because it would come out of me in a GU in, in a big chunk.
Now I know, so I, my writing course really came out of a big fear that I had that in around 20 14, 20 15, I got a lot of attention and a lot of people were saying a lot of good things, but I had this fear that one day I would stop writing good, cuz I didn’t know why I was writing. Good. So I went and learnt why I was writing. Good. So now I can look at a story and I might not pick the exact right best way to write it. And I might not always get the time to write it the way I want to, but I can pick the best two or three best ways to write it and I can put it together. And I can, from a narrative point of view, from a structure point of view, the narrative was always my big strength that I had over other writers structure has become my second big strength.
And my third big strength is I write quicker than other people. So I can write, I can write 2000 words in two hours without having anything in front of me beforehand. Um, that’s not a normal human thing. There’s only one other person in cricket writing that I’m aware of. He can do that. The great Chris stocks, um, unfortunately, he typed so heavily. He has to replace his keyboard all the time, but it’s not a normal thing to be able to do that from scratch the way that me and him can. Um, those are three huge advantages, which means that I can structure and work on the narrative far longer than anyone else. Because I know that when I write, I’m gonna write, you know, there are days when I’ve written 13,000 words in a day.
Um, and that’s not a normal thing for even a professional writer to be able to do so knowing where things should go, why they should go there, why I’ve written them, why it’s wrong is, um, is really important to me. But sometimes it’s just like, I’ve got an idea and I sit down and it just comes out. I might reshape it a little bit more than I used to when I was younger, but sometimes that just happens. And other times I’ve got a piece up on my, on my, um, I’ve got, one thing I do is I do a lot of visual representations, so I’ve got apps, um, that allow me to do storyboards, um, uh, by hand on my, on my iPad. And I’ve also got my all behind you or it’s no good to your podcast listeners, but all behind my camera.
So if you’ve ever seen one of my YouTube videos, the other side is a whiteboard wall. Um, and on that at the moment is a piece that I’ve basically planned. I reckon, based on my plan, it would take me an hour and a half to write it. Um, unless the stats get tricky or I go down a rabbit hole, which sometimes happens because it’s basically, I went up to the whiteboard when it was all fresh in my head and write it, but I don’t ever follow one process. I have lots of different processes for different kinds of pieces, but also I’m different at different times. So the piece comes to me differently. Um, uh, you know, uh, and so it comes out of me differently, if that makes sense, that made it sound weirdly sexual, but I didn’t mean it that way, but you know, they come sometimes the piece just come to you in a certain way, and it’s better to write them as they come to you. And other times it’s like, Nope, I wanna step back. And I wanna really think about this, right?
Neha: But how do you tackle the phases when you have writer’s block or you just have so much in your mind, or you’re like deeply attached to the outcome of the match? How do you just put that into words? How do you tackle that?
Jarrod: I don’t believe in writer’s block. I tell you why this might be a sports writer’s thing, but if writer’s block was a real thing, wouldn’t newspapers be empty sometimes thicker. Yeah. There’s no, it’s, it’s it’s I think from a creativity point, I think there are sometimes where my creativity, well dries. I could still write though, but I do know I don’t get as much now. I think I’m much better at managing my creativity. There was certainly a big period. I wanna say from maybe 2014 to 20 17, 20 18, where sometimes in the middle of a week I would just stop writing. And I would watch a TV. The, from beginning to end took me if it takes me a day was, you know, it takes me two days, whatever I needed to do that.
Um, to be honest, physical fitness has probably replaced a lot of that. I do a lot of working out and that probably helps me a lot now, but being able to do that certainly helps, but it’s a, it’s a job, right? I need to be able to write eight hours a day or I won’t get paid. Like I don’t, I understand what you’re saying, but you have to understand. It’s I think writer’s block comes from people who are either indulged because they get paid too much. Right. Um, or it comes from people who are semiprofessional or even amateur. You can’t have writer’s block if it’s your job, if you are, if I’m, if I’m, if I’m working as a mechanic, I can’t, can’t suddenly go in there and go guys. I just don’t know. I’ve just got this block. Well, you’re fired at the end of your job. There are days when it’s harder to write. There’s absolutely no doubt about that, but you have to learn how to manage that. In fact, I think writers’ block is just writing on days when it’s harder to write rather than actually having a block.
Um, I think David Hops, I mentioned him before, uh, you know, he, he was my editor. I think there was a point in my career where I wanted every piece to be the absolute best piece possible. And Hopsy had to sort of take me aside and go, sometimes you just have to write a shit piece. Right. And he wasn’t saying that in a bad way. Right? It’s a bit like what you’d say to a batter of like, you wanna play your best innings. Right? You wanna play, I wanna be able to play my cover drive and flick off my pads. When the short ball comes, smash it, sometimes you can’t do that. And your 30, your scratchy, 35 is more important than the polished 120 the following day when it doesn’t matter or the following game when it doesn’t matter.
And I think from a, I think from a writing perspective, it’s very similar. There are some days when I just have to get the article up. Yes. Could I spend another four hours and make it 5% better? Yes. Is it worth my time? All right. Is it worth it? Is this piece gonna be remembered? Or have I got the facts right? In this piece. So it doesn’t matter that it’s not as literary, you know, literary as I want it to be, or as visual as I want it to be, or as, um, emotional or doesn’t have an Emma to it. Right? No, but am I gonna spend the next seven hours doing that when I’m really fucking tired? And I, I had to get up at 4:00 AM to get a train from Mohali to Delhi
I then had to get a took, took from one side of Delhi to the other, and it was stinking hot and I couldn’t breathe. Um, and I’ve been working nonstop for the last 12 days, writing between, you know, 1,003 thousand words a day. The best thing I can do right now is just to go, that’s not a great piece. And I know it’s not a great piece and I know why it’s not a great piece and I’m gonna try harder next time to make sure this doesn’t happen. I’m gonna make sure there’s a system in place. So this doesn’t happen. That’s being a professional, right?
Neha: I mean, you are a very polished writer and you did come into prominence first as the founder of the cricket with, uh, balls blog. Now, how much did you enjoy writing the blog? How’s the experience of the same? And did you ever think, you know, that you’d get that fame and you know, the love that you get for writing?
Jarrod: I always thought I’d be a writer. So I didn’t think I was very good at anything else for being honest. So I figured that I was gonna be a writer. Um, you daydream about what that means, you know, I always thought, I suppose, as I got older, I thought writing sitcoms would be cool, but sitcom writers aren’t particularly famous, you know, down harm and aside.
Um, I don’t think there are that many celebrity sitcom writers, maybe more so now with Twitter, cuz we can see them running jokes in real-time, but even so, there aren’t many celebrity sitcom writers, so I never really thought of having that kind of following. Um, or movie scripts, and even with movie scripts, you got what Tarantino. So, um, a couple of others, there really aren’t that many famous screenwriters. That’s not what screenwriters and TV writers are, are made for. Right. So I probably didn’t think about it in the same way that perhaps I would have. Then you, you do cricket with balls and it wasn’t my first blog. So I’d written other blogs before.
Um, very quickly. There’s a lot of people following me very quickly. I’m the biggest cricket blog in the world. And perhaps the biggest cricket blog that had been up until that point. Well, still to this point, really, uh, cuz blogs kind of died after that point. But, um, but I’m, my writing was quite developed. My cricket writing wasn’t. My understanding of what I was doing was very low. I was writing in character because I never expected anyone to read any of this. So I was writing a book at the same time when I started the blog. And I just used the character from the book to write the blog, which, you know, leads to a lot of regrettable things.
I’ve probably written, um, that I couldn’t defend, cuz it wasn’t even me saying them. It was this character, but I knew it was a character and hardcore fans that the blog knew it was a character. I think some of them, um, but the rest of the world didn’t know so they were probably coming on going what this guy, what, who writes that? Right. Um, so it was weird. It was weird writing with no rules to an audience who loved it. But what it really did was it kept me at the keyboard and I. I can’t, I think this is right. I think it was 3 million words in two years, even if I wasn’t a very good writer, I would like to think that that would’ve allowed me to, we don’t need the second pair of headphones on.
Um, I think that would’ve, um, allowed me to, um, become a much better writer. What it did was really allow me to experiment and I never wanted to be a writer like other sports writers. I didn’t particularly like sports writing that much. Uh, and so I didn’t wanna be that kind of writer. And so with that, that allowed me to find who I was as a writer, experiment, develop, work out what audiences liked, work out, what audiences didn’t like most importantly, work out what I like to write. Um, and I do the pieces that I probably got famous for the sort of short, angry yell pieces on credible balls. Wasn’t what I liked to. I like to write longer features and delve into things and, you know, writing a blog for 2007. When did I start with cricket info? 2011. So writing a blog for four years with a little bit of magazine writing and freelance writing around that just allowed me to become a writer.
I wanted to be in a way that most writers don’t get that chance. Um, and I created a lot of things that other cricket writers followed, which was great, but I also broadly brought a lot of bad habits that shouldn’t have existed and, you know, probably ruined some careers of people that probably the, the biggest problem for that I always noticed is that people would follow the wrong thing.
All right. So they would, they’d be like, oh, Jarrod’s writing is good because of the jokes. No, it’s not a joke. Jarrod’s good because of the swearing. It’s not the swearing. Jarrod’s good because of the structure. No, it’s not the structure. The things that you need to learn are the narrative, which is really important. The passion. And gaining the knowledge and testing the knowledge. And I think too many people sort of copied the shit, bits of me, not the better bits. Um, but luckily for me, I copied the better bits of me, if that makes sense.
Neha: You’re such an all-rounder, you’ve done so many commentary students and everything. So could you also reflect on these, uh, commentary stints and how much do you enjoy commentary in recent times?
Jarrod: You know, do you think the quality is up there or has it like dipped massively? My commentary is probably dipped massively. Um, yeah, the commentary was interesting for me. I never dreamed of doing commentary. In fact, if I never dreamed of being a cricket writer or doing cricket commentary, the only dream I ever had when I was young was weirdly being an analyst and that job didn’t exist, but that was my recurring dream. Um, I had this conversation with Trevor Holmes who was like the chairman of selectors for the Australian team.
Once, you know, there was a shield game on and I, he asked me a question and I started giving him all this information about. Cover drives and everything. And to my, I don’t know, where was it? 15, 16, 17 years, old years. He was really listening to every word, probably. He was like, oh, well, this kid shut up. Um, but that was the job I wanted. So I never really thought about that. And I didn’t think about cricket commentary really until, uh, test match sofa started and I realized you could commentate from home. So the first time that they did it, I was like, I don’t know these people. And I don’t really wanna go hang around with a bunch of people. I don’t know. So I’m just gonna commentate on my own. So I literally did all-day sessions of test matches on my own, on my computer. And people really liked it, but it was exhausting. Mm-hmm and also meant I couldn’t write during the day. And the majority of the people who were on my blog wanted me to write.
Um, and so you commentate for seven hours straight and then write physically is draining. So when the test match sofa asked me to come on board, I came on board and I did. What was that? That was 2009 ashes. So I did 2009, 10 South Africa. I did whatever else they did in 2000 and for the next year. And I probably finished up sometime after the world cup. So I probably did anywhere between 75 at 150 commentary stints, but I kind of figured that’s where it finished. I didn’t see an opening.
I did a trivia night with Jim Maxwell, um, in Australia, sorry, in England where it was me, him and a guy from neighbours. Do you know what neighbours is? So neighbours is like this famous Australian. So opera that is only famous in England oh, cooking. Literally, no one in Australia cares about it, but it was massive in England. And so like is star off neighbours? Is there just before we start this Tribune, it’s like Australia versus England Ashe’s trivia. uh, 2013. It must have been. And I hadn’t done much commentary for a long time at this point. And just before we go to air, this guy from neighbours leans into me and goes, mate, I don’t know much about, um, cricket.
I’m like, oh, okay. and, and then, then two seconds later, Jim Maxwell leans in and goes, just so you know, I’ve got a terrible brain for cricket trivia and I’m like, and I’m looking at the other side. The other side was Simon Hughes. Who’s written histories on cricket, Mark Butcher. Who’s got a really good memory when he, when he cares and miles J who’s a proper cricket nerd and I’m like, oh shit, I’ve gotta go up against the three of them on my own. Now. And we lost because Jim Maxwell, um, answered a question that I knew the answer to over the top of me. And if you go back and listen to that broadcast, it is literally, I must have answered 85% of the questions right for our side. And you could see, I could sense Jim Maxwell, who didn’t know, who never met me before that day, sort of turning around, going, who is this guy?
Right. And it was all broadcasting the BBC. So it was a big deal. And, and Jim sort of came up to me afterwards and said, look, I’m gonna retire. Eventually, would you be interested in coming and commentating for ABC and maybe eventually taking over from me? And I was like, what? Um, yes, Jim Maxwell, that sounds like a dream job. Um, of course, it wasn’t really, until that happened, that I started thinking more about commentary. Um, so they got me to do Australia, uh, Australia’s tour of South Africa in 20 13, 14. Yeah. Yeah, 20 13, 14. I can’t remember if I did stuff for ABC in 2013 as well, or yeah, I must have done some staff, um, as well.
And then I did 2014 and 201515. I did a, a little bit of ABC again, around that time. Uh, talk sport, got the rights to the, the IPL. Yeah. So we would commentate the IPL from London. Um, and you know, the gorilla cricket stuff taught me some things ABC. I had a few different roles on ABC. What really happened though? Was that through gorilla, not gorilla cricket. I never commentated on gorilla cricket. Um, through test match so far through talk sport through ABC, I kind of did three different. I did a little bit of analysis for ABC, although not that much, but I also did co commentary like a former player would, which is quite a big deal cuz usually only former players do that.
Um, and then I did, um, calling in the IPL, which meant that I sort of learnt all the different skills of cricket commentary at once. And it made me listen to cricket commentary a lot different than even someone like Dan Norcross or John Norman or Hasha Boley would cuz most of them do one job suddenly I had to learn all these different skills. And so that was a big thing. And then when I, and then when I went back to talk sport and they got the rights, they got me to be like the on air analyst completely, again, I’m learning different things, but then they’re like, oh, now we need you to be co commentated cuz we’re down a commentator, then it’d be like T20s and now I’m commentating.
And I think, I think I’m fair. I think it’s fair to say. I’m the only person in the world who does those three jobs on air regularly for international cricket anyway, domestic cricket and T 20 cricket might be slightly different. And I think it made me look at. I was always very interested in the radio product of commentary because that I was, I always hated, I, I was probably one of the first people who turned against channel nine and ABC was so good that I focused a lot on that. So I think there was a big part of me that sort of took that and went with it. Then the other thing was that now I’m doing all these different jobs, I’m thinking about commentary quite differently. So I ended up consulting on the, the rebrand and the, the Ji of ABC commentary. Um, so rather than becoming Jim Maxwell, I kind of had a bigger job in some ways, but then ended up with no job with ABC.
And that didn’t really work out brilliantly for me, but they did change their commentary afterwards. So I, it was a small win and then talk sport, knowing I’d done that for ABC got me to come in, you know, and talk sport have now won a bunch of awards for their cricket commentary. Um, and so. I’m really passionate about it because I know one thing I’ve really learned is just how much it’s great to write great pieces. The commentary has an ability to impart so much information to people. Um, cuz so many people don’t read that much. They may, maybe they read their local newspaper, right? They don’t read quick info or quick buzz or bloggers or anything like that when you’re on air, the ability to correct wrongs and share more information and um, shine a light on plays that don’t get, um, shot on normally is incredible. Um, and so I’ve really, really enjoyed that over the years. Um, and I’ve come to enjoy it far more than I probably did when I started. And it was just another thing that I did cuz people thought I was good. Right. And you did talk about how, you know, you wanted to be an analyst when it wasn’t even a thing.
Neha: So how is it like, you know, working as an analyst for the St. Lucia stars and later working with the Scotland men’s team, like how, how are those experiences like?
Jarrod: Yeah, I did, I, I had three major jobs. I had Melbourne stars as well. Ah, um, and then I’ve done consultancy work and worked with players and captains and coaches and general managers and all sorts of things. So I’ve worked with a lot of teams, over many different kinds of roles. Um, but the biggest three where I’ve been the most public have been the three that, that we mentioned there. Look, it’s terrifying because a lot of being an analyst is going, oh, it’s not 50 50, it’s 60 40. So if you do this, you’re more likely than not to be successful.
It still means the 40% could happen. So I played a club game the other day. I was telling you before. And a couple of the bowlers came up to me for help. And I said to one bowler, I would try this and he gets hit for six and the next over another bowler asked me for help. And I said, I would try this. And he bowls him. Right. I was right both times, but I also could have been wrong both times. And now I get seen as a genius. If I would’ve got two wickets. And I get seen as that an idiot, if I get here for two, six S and yet what I was trying to do in both situations was put the best possible situation for the bowler there.
And that’s a terrifying thing because you can’t predict the future. All you can do is try and do that. Then you have situations where you have players, who you have written in my case, that you’ve written about. They may not agree with what you’ve written about them, and now you’re giving them advice. That’s awkward. I have, you know, various relationships with players, with people throughout cricket, and now you’re in a different job. You’re on the other side, they’re treating you differently. In good and bad ways. So it’s, it’s a kind of terrifying yet exhilarating job. I find you’re completely out of control even when you’ve done all the work that you can do, um, to be in control there aren’t that I don’t feel that way with writing.
I feel like when I write something, I can control the final product. It may not be what I want it to be for many different reasons, but I can control that final product. I think that that is not the case. Um, when you look at, um, uh, being an analyst and there’s some excite, there’s exciting parts of that, also, it matters more, remember talking to another writer, going the exhilaration of being with a game. Can’t be, you know, with a team when they’re playing a game, can’t be compared to writing a piece. And this guy’s like, oh no, no, you know, I’ve got a deadline and I’ve gotta write this piece and it’s for a paper of record. And I was like, yeah, I’ve done all that. That’s not the same as getting a team qualified for a world cup or getting a team from last to the final or getting a team so far ahead of a game. And then watching that all fall apart while you can’t do anything about it, that is just a complete, another level that it’s really hard to explain to someone who hasn’t done it.
Neha: You’ve done so many roles as well. And you have this venture called 99.94 DM. Could you talk more about that for our listeners?
Jarrod: Yeah. So 99.94 is it came out of me working cricket for a very long time. And me being very frustrated with cricket media and what it could be and what it is. And I think that the longer that I have worked in cricket, the more things I have seen that are being missed that I think can be covered. So I. I think cricket teams are not covered correctly. I think cricket can be covered, correct. Uh, okay. As a general, but not the cricket teams directly. I think there are, I don’t think there is enough commentary, especially radio commentary available for cricket games. I don’t think there is enough podcasts. I don’t think there’s enough analysis of cricketers and cricket teams directly.
The 99.94 is really designed as much as anything to become that. Uh, so that in the best case scenario, 24 hours a day, you can have the 99.94 app open and be listening to a game. And when that game finishes, you’ve got a great podcast between two smart people. And when that podcast finishes, we have another game and then we have three more podcasts and then we have another game and it’s just this constant stream of intelligent people analyzing and discussing cricket. And, you know, we want it to be Cricket’s conversation. There will be elements of video. There’ll be elements of writing as well, but the real heart of it for us is we believe that cricket is a game that people talk about. And I think that’s always been Cricket’s great strength. I don’t think that is being used for cricket as well as it could be.
And so we know there are great conversations to be had in cricket and great commentary to be had in cricket that isn’t currently being had. And so 99.94 is basically going to hopefully fill that marketplace, right. That is a very, uh, noble venture and really excited to see how that, uh, shapes up, uh, talking about, you know, your documentary, uh, journey.
Neha: Now, along with Sam Collins, you’ve, uh, co-directed and quote it in the documentary film death of a gentleman that largely talks about, uh, the influence that the big three has in cricket. Now, according to, you know, how big of an influence does the big three feel on cricket?
Jarrod: Yeah, it suppresses the other nations. Um, well the big three that we’re talking about at the time, they basically wrote a document on how to take over the game. So that was a pretty big deal. Um, their big three is no longer together. It should be said the big three, um, are all upset with each other and, uh, have separated, but they are the three biggest cricket nations and India on its own is a big one. Um, and England and Australia certainly have a big say, uh, in the game as well, but the other, the other boards have allowed this to happen. Uh, they could have fought for better governance. They could have called India’s bluff. A lot of this comes down to the fact that they’re all afraid that India will never be two of them again.
Okay. Um, why, if you all decide to stand up to India at the one time? That means India’s not playing international cricket anymore. And if India’s not playing international cricket anymore, and you are running the BCCI think there’s gonna be a lot of angry Indians coming to you and going, we like the IPL and we’d like to continue the IPL, but we also want India to beat Pakistan to the world cup. Right? I think there are ways that you could have put pressure back on the big three specifically, uh, that wasn’t done. And I think let’s call them the small seven. I think they were, they were weak. I think they were stupid. I think they were selfish and utterly clueless and they allowed this to happen.
Now, there are some things that you can’t get past. The fact that India creates so much wealth for cricket and that they’re gonna have the biggest say anyway, that doesn’t mean that you don’t unionize around them. If the small seven all got together and agreed on what was best for cricket, big three in a weird position, then do they break off? Do they go on their own? Let’s say India, doesn’t play in the next world cup. Right? And they’ve just decided to leave because they’re not happy. The way that cricket is being run the world cup’s still gonna be worth a lot of money. People say that India is worth between seven and 80% of Cricket’s wealth, right?
20% of the world cup is still a lot of money. 30%, 40%, and 50% of the world cup is still worth a lot of money. That’s where the other boards have got themselves to blame. And I’m more than happy to when the big three were trying to take the game over on their own, more than happy to stick the booth in what they did was disgusting. It was terrible. And would’ve been utterly ruined international cricket, far more than the franchises, uh, are going to eventually ruin it.
But the small boards have had ample opportunities to fix this. And they don’t do it because ultimately they choose the easiest option, which is sucking up to India or sucking up to England, or occasionally sucking up to Australia over there doing the right thing. Um, and putting themselves, we could have a proper world test championship with the right, all sold in a great package that would make a bunch of money for test cricket, but west Indies and Sri Lanka didn’t want to be in a position where they get relegated. Wouldn’t be in division one. You don’t get to be in division one because someone said, you’re good enough to play cricket in 1898 or 1930, or, you know, 1955. You’re good enough to play division one in 10th cricket, cuz you’re consistently one of the best teams. And we’ve set up this system where we think once we’re in, we should never lose anything. And that is what is holding cricket. Absolutely. And a lot to pond it on, you know, because the big three do have that influence.
Neha: And you’ve also written Australian autopsy, the go details of how England dissected Australia, uh, you know, detailing the 2010/11 Ashes series. Now, how closely do you follow Ashes? I mean, it’s an obvious question. And what prompted you to write this book and write this particular book?
Jarrod: I’ve actually written about five books. So that must have been my third book. Um, I wrote that book because it was my first time as a professional. I was getting sent to every day of a major tour. Um, I’m obviously an Australian who covers cricket in England, so the ashes are an occupational hazard for me. Uh, but I was really interested in covering an entire series for give-to-end. From my perspective. I didn’t think anyone like me had ever written a book like that before sort of an outsider on the inside at a certain point.
Um, I ended up being a really important series. I think the way that England played their, their cricket. Um, I think it was quite clear that this was on its on its way. Um, and yeah, I think, I think I, I, I really wanted to write, I suppose the sort of cricket books I’d read a lot when I was growing up with those sort of travel log cricket books. And I wanted to try my hand at it. I don’t re I, I don’t remember weirdly enough. I wrote what I thought was the worst book before that. And I think reviews wise and, um, everything else, the other book is a lot more popular, but I thought this was a much better book, but people didn’t quite gravitate to this book the way that I thought they should have, uh, well, the way that I would’ve hoped anyway.
Um, but yeah, I just, I think. As a writer, it was like an opportunity to cover an entire ashes from beginning to end. We even went, did I get the warm-up games? No, I know it was next year. Next time I went to the warm-up games, but, you know, being travelling around, uh, what it was like, uh, what it was like coming back home as an Australian, all that sort of stuff. I just thought it was an interesting topic and that I could write a decent book on it.
Neha: Right. And talking about books, you’ve also written ‘Test Cricket: The Unauthorized Biography’ in 2016, which is another fabulous book. Is the longest format of the game, your favorite format? And are you a purist?
Jarrod: Yeah, I’m a purist. But when I say I’m a purist, I don’t mean that I only like test cricket. Cause when people say that there was cricket before there was test cricket, first class cricket is incredible. Um, I, yeah, so I’m a purist in that I love cricket. To me, the format is less important than the game itself, because we don’t know that test cricket will last forever because we only know it’s been around for, you know, 120, 130 years.
Right. Wait, what year are we in 2022? I need to update that my master there, but, um, I think it’s very important to know that cricket, any cricket can be beautiful. And I, so I’m not a purist in that perspec from that perspective. I, if you have a read of that book, it’s not just about test cricket. There’s a lot about, especially when I wrote about women’s cricket. And when I wrote about the associate nations, they’re not test nations. I should say the women’s women’s are obviously, but they don’t play a lot of test cricket. So I wanted that to, I thought that there’d been some very good books about their history of cricket, but they’d been written very early in Cricket’s history. I felt like there hadn’t been a book that had told your wife, Zimbabwe was great. Why island was great? You know, why all these different parts of, you know, away Sri Lanka was great. Why Pakistan’s resurgence in the eighties was important. Why new Zealand’s getting good was all these sorts of little things. I think test cricket history sort of stops in around 1960 and the rest you, what you get the rest of it is nostalgia porn about how good the west Indies were or how good Australia were, or the 83 world cup or whatever your, your thing is.
And what I really wanted to do is right about everything right up until Pakistan being taken away from the game, the rise of women’s cricket. And I also wanted to write it in a particular kind of way, which was that in some ways, test cricket or sorry, in some ways cricket itself is this pure, beautiful thing. And humans keep trying to ruin it. And I wanted to show. That cricket had managed to fight its way through the cracks when it probably shouldn’t have, when it shouldn’t really exist in modern society, it’s managed to continue to because the sport itself is so great. That’s the story that I wanted to tell of test cricket, um, and cricket in general, really. And that’s what I did.
Neha: Talking about how cricket has been tweaked, we have seen how ODIs and T20Is are a big thing now, and there’s, this, this goes about how ODIs are kind of becoming irrelevant and, you know, even Bilateral series don’t make as much sense. Now, according to you are ODIs are becoming irrelevant and in the future, we might not see it exist?
Jarrod: I thought ODIs are irrelevant in 1996 and here we are. Um, they make a lot of money for TV companies. And when TV companies were the major, um, part of cricket we kept having one day is, uh, now. We have streaming platforms and we have T 20 cricket. So they’re less relevant. We shouldn’t have bilateral cricket outside of friendly and maybe a couple of key marque series. Bilaterals is a stupid idea. It’s why cricket doesn’t make as much money as it should. It’s why players from Bangladesh get paid pits. Well, actually Bangla displays get paid. Okay. But plays from New Zealand and Western cities get paid to pits compared to players from, you know, England and India and Australia. Um, there are many ways that we can fix that up by having a league pay structure and all these sorts of things. So I don’t care about bilaterals as far as I’m concerned, T 20 internationals and, uh, T 20 and one day internationals should be Friendlys played before world cups. I, I don’t really care that much about them in any other sense.
There’s too much cricket being played. If they disappeared, I wouldn’t wouldn’t care that much coming into world cups. It’s great to work out who your best team is and, uh, work out how things work. Um, We could have great. We could go back to the old days of having little, you know, quad quadrangular series, where every day, you know, a different team plays a different team, you know, 10 straight one day is being played.
Um, everyone gets different chances to play. Um, that would be great preparation for a world cup. There are things that we can do instead, we play these bilateral series that kind of fade into nothingness, right. And even, you know, with the draft of the FTP, that’s out, uh, it came under the scanner because, you know, there’s just an increase in the number of matches. There’s a jam packed schedule. Do you think a lot of cricket is being played at the moment and viewer burnout is an actual thing. And going ahead, will we see a lot of retirements too? Like people going to Ben Stoks way we’ve already had that people have been reti retiring by formats for decades now. Um, so that’s already, that’s always happened and we might get more of it.
Um, there’s always been too much cricket. In places like England, um, specifically, um, there’s probably been too much cricket internationally since year 2000. There’s not too much. Women’s cricket. There’s not too much disability cricket. There’s not too much associate cricket, certainly too much. Men’s cricket at the major at the major end look, no one’s in charge of the game, so no one’s around to stop it. And so people are just gonna keep playing more and more cricket because it makes them money at the board level and players will play and smart players will try and manage that best they can. Right. I mean, cricket also has this claim of being a global sport, but although we just have like eight proper test, you know, uh, playing nations now, how do you think the ICC can actually make it an inclusive space for the associate nations and, you know, get them also to the mainstream?
I think the last 20 years we’ve had the biggest boom we’ve ever had in associate. Um, we’ve had the Thai women’s team at the, at the world cup. We had the Ja Japanese team in the under 19 world cup. Uh, we have the Brazilian women improving. We have Nepal, we have Afghanistan and Namibia and the men’s, um, Papua new Guinea. Uh, we have island as a test playing nation. We have Afghanistan as it playing nation. We probably have Scotland, Nepal, um, Netherlands, not too far behind, uh, it’s happening, but the ICC is not in charge of anything. Right. They’re not actually in charge of world cricket, so they can’t make anything happen. Ireland have test playing status. They don’t play tests. So what does that do? All right. So that’s, that would be my answer to. Right. And let’s take the discussion forward to women’s cricket. Now you said you do follow women’s cricket closely, according to you, how has women’s cricket evolved? I’m not looking at a particular time span, so feel free to think of anything, but how do you think it has, uh, evolved? So you were talking about the games we were at before, uh, that I remembered. So in the 2009 world cup, I watched England versus, uh, England versus Australia and the semifinal. And then last year I went to a hundred game and that’s domestic game. And the quality of that hundred game was nearly double. What I saw in that world cup semifinal. I’ve never seen any sport in the world move as quickly. Um, as I’ve seen women’s cricket move in the last 15 years. Um, so there’s nothing but good signs there. The professionalism is getting better and better. We obviously still have problems, uh, you know, certain societies within cricket see women differently.
Right. I don’t, I don’t think I need to tell you that. Um, you know, I’ve just done a podcast on, uh, uh, women’s cricket and Pakistan. It’s tough. Um, and so there’s, there’s no doubt that that’s a problem, getting money, getting grounds, getting access, pleasing your parents, pleasing your husbands in some situations, pleasing your wives and other situations.
Um, there’s huge problems when it comes to William’s cricket, but the growth and the way that it’s moved in the last 15 years, as I said, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it. And so it would be impossible to sit here and be negative about something that 15 years ago was dreary and dreary. And Dulan white, I suppose, is another way of putting it. It was a white middle class sport 15 years ago. And it’s not that anymore. It is moving at a rapid rate. And, um, uh, I, I think it’s incredibly exciting.
Neha: Right. And, you know, talking about the other things, like, you know, women’s IPL, I feel, uh, there have been a lot of calls to have this right now. Do you think this is the way to go ahead for women’s cricket and most importantly, even the Indian game, and there’s also been some concerns on the financial feasibility of the same. So how do you look at it?
Jarrod: The financial feasibility of a women’s IPL yeah, like when it be self-sustaining model like the IPL, you know, when it starts off, well, the IPL wasn’t self-sustaining um, so the, the team team owners lost money for years at the start of the IPL. Right? So almost, I’m not sure there’s any franchises in the world that would start a league that’s that’s that self-sustaining do, do they not advertise women’s products in India?
It’s not as great, I guess. Well, you don’t have, you don’t have. Um, women’s clothing brands that are sold in India? You don’t have makeup? Do I need to keep going? Are there other things that women buy that men don’t buy? I mean, there has been this reluctance from the BCCs end, right? Because they don’t really market women’s cricket. It that well, but what is, but you see what I’m saying? When you are saying it, is it self-sustaining and I’m saying 50% of the population are out there. You, how many million people do you really need to watch a game to make it self-sustaining? Not much right now.
Let’s say we get, let’s say it gets a million people to watch per game on TV telling me I can’t make money off that per game. 20 games, 30 games, 40 games, 50 games. That’s 50 million people. You’re now telling me that all those advertisers that for years have been aiming their products at. Have a women’s game that they can a, a whole new line of products are that you’re a women’s sports brand in India, and you don’t wanna be involved with the women’s IPL. And you’re asking me if it’s sustainable now forget the fact that it needs to be sustainable. Doesn’t need to be sustainable for the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years, right? Because the owners will pay for it to start with, right? Cause people will wanna be involved with it. Now think about it when at the fifth year or the 10th year, and you’re saying that you can’t make money off a women’s IPL, it’s a billion-dollar branch in 20 or 30 years time, perhaps right?
In five years time, you should be able to make proper money off it. It’s it’s it, it complete idiocy to think that you couldn’t make money off this right now. Let’s say you can’t make money off it for 10 years possible. Have I missed something or the BCCI. They could make the top thousand women’s cricketers professionals tomorrow and not notice it in a bank balance. Right. In a, in a heartbeat. They have so much money when people say to me, oh, the players aren’t ready yet. You know, there aren’t, there aren’t enough good quality players pay ’em in five years time, you’d be better than Australia. Right. Where people say things like, ah, there isn’t as much interest in women’s cricket.
Okay. So it’s gonna be smaller than men’s cricket. We kind of knew that coming in there’s gonna be enough interest in it. There are gonna be sponsors when they did the women’s hundred. Do you know what the ECB found? There were all these sponsors who’d never wanted to sponsor cricket before who was suddenly answering their calls right there. It’s stupid that it has not existed yet. It’s misogyny. It’s short-sightedness. It’s actually losing money. It’s losing the BCCI money that they didn’t start this competition five years ago, because it would be flying by now. Absolutely flying. Uh, the only thing I would say is I’ll probably make a lot more money of it now, post Harman pre um, uh, just because I think now the IPL is so big.
It’s like, oh, we can buy an women’s IPL team here. Um, and we can make some money off that if they sell them separately, if they don’t tack them onto the men’s team. Um, so they would probably make a little bit more money when they start now than they would’ve five years ago. But what are we talking about here? Right? Women’s sport is the, the, the growth industry it’s growing way quicker than men’s sport. You would have to be an actively stupid person to not invest money in a, in a women’s I P lead. Like if they’ve got, if I had money, that’s where I’d be putting my money. Right. And so I, I don’t understand it. On any level, it, it’s not good morally.
It’s not good for cricket. It’s not good for finances. It’s not good for advertising. Not having this league is just a big mistake. Absolutely. I mean, I’ve always been for the women’s I feel, but, you know, I just keep wondering why the BCCI isn’t you know, taking the plunge to eventually know, start this, uh, leaders. It’s almost like it’s run by men. Yeah. And know when, when do men go outta their way to help women? That’s what happens when you have a bunch of men running things? Right? If, if, if the BCCI was 50-50, there’d be, you know, there’d be a women’s IPL already. There’s they loss, I mean, BCCI doesn’t need the extra money, but they are leaving money on the table.
They’re also leaving fans on the table. They, right. The more you can grow, the more you can do. You know that some fat uncle on a sofa, right? Who hates women? If there’s no cricket on probably still gonna watch women’s IPL occasionally. Right? My dad never showed any interest in women’s sport ever, but as women’s sports on the TV, he watches it. It’s good. The quality’s good. He likes women’s tennis. He likes women’s golf. He watches women’s cricket. He watches women’s Aussie rules football. Right? Will he watch it when it clashes with the men’s more often than not? No, but if it’s his favorite sport compared to a, another sport, he doesn’t like as much.
He’s probably more likely to watch the women’s and he’s favorite sport than he is to watch a men’s in another sport. He’s not so sure about people like watching sport, people like going to sport. People like paying for things involved with sport, give them more options. Then you can build a whole nother audience. You can build other stars that you can make money. That’s what the BCCI should be doing. That’s what the PCB should be doing. That’s what CSA should be doing. That’s what the CWI should be doing. I can just keep naming the leagues until they all do it.
Neha: On the same line of thought, do you think of, you know, women women’s Cate is other needs of it’s other needs majorly, uh, debated topic too. So what are your thoughts on this? You know, what is the road ahead that can be adopted for women’s tests?
Jarrod: Yeah, I, I wonder now if the only way we’ll ever have women’s tests is if it’s split off and it’s separate from everything else. And I don’t think there’s an audience that’s being built for that. So if it happens, I really worry about it. Look, you watch women’s test cricket and it’s a bit like watching T20 on one-day cricket for 15 years ago, they don’t look very good at it. They don’t play it enough. They don’t prepare for it enough. They’re not thinking about it enough. And. It’s really hard to be good at something that you spend less than 5% of your time at, right? So the quality isn’t there and it doesn’t look as good on TV as the women’s T20 and one day is due because they’re practising that. And they’re preparing for that all the time. So I do worry about women’s test cricket going forward. That said if women’s cricket keeps growing, I just find it impossible for someone not to work out how to do a women’s test league.
Neha: Right. And, uh, we almost come to the end of this interview because we’ve spoken so much cricket and I’ve just been curious, you know, what are other things, uh, you know, besides cricket that you’re actually passionate about? Like basically how do you unwind and relax?
Jarrod: I’m right. I don’t unwind. That’s just what I do. Um, I, I love basketball. Um, so I follow basketball quite a bit. Um, I kind of follow basketball. 80% or 70% of the year when it’s, when the NBA’s on and then follow Aussie’s football a bit for the other part. Um, I mean, since COVID happened, I probably the one part of my life I haven’t worked on as much has been unwinding, cause I’ve been a freelancer during COVID. I just have to keep working. Um, so, you know, and trying to build 99.94 from an idea through to a business is an epic undertaking. Um, but I spend a lot of time with my kids, um, a lot of time with my family in general. Um, and I think one good thing about being a cricket person, whatever it is is I haven’t travelled as much in recent times, but you do travel a lot.
And so, you know, you work hard for 10, 11 hours of that day, but then you go out and you find the, you find the, um, The late night bar in, in Birmingham that has, um, you know, eighties retros games and table tennis and pool table, whatever it is. And you play with your friends and, um, find new restaurants and new foods you haven’t eaten before and all that sort of stuff.
So I think most of my unwinding is probably with my family now, and that’s great. And I’ve got absolutely no problem with that. Um, and then the rest is probably basketball and, and maybe a little bit Aussie rules football, right?
Neha: And one last question, before we wrap up this episode, you’re a ‘multimedia legend’. It goes without saying…
Jarrod: It doesn’t go without saying, you should say it again xD
Neha: ‘Multimedia legend ninja’.
Jarrod: So I might get that on a business card except for no one really takes business cards anymore, but continue.
Neha: Yeah. So do you have, you know, tips for us who look up to you and want to follow in your footsteps and a final message for our listeners?
Jarrod: If, if someone wants to get into this, I think the first thing is. Follow the things that interest you don’t follow, the things that you think interest other people. There are a few people who’ve made careers in cricket media by trolling Indians or trolling Pakistanis, um, or trolling everyone on Twitter, I suppose. But generally, they don’t build very good professional careers. There are a few people who are good at following the trends of cricket and writing a piece the next day. I don’t think they feel very fulfilled. Write about what interests you talk about, what interests you, what interests you follow that, and work out.
How to make that into something is probably the biggest tip that I have. Um, separate to that. I mean, I do have sports writing course, which was soon to be a multimedia course that the multimedia bit hasn’t quite been. Put up yet, but will be very soon. Um, and when that goes live, obviously, um, that will help people. But, you know, again, I think one of the big things I would say is how often do you podcast? Oh, I try weekly episodes. Yeah, try no, I actually publish weekly episodes. Yeah. Every week on the same day, uh, the days deferred, but now because I have holidays, so the frequencies are a little more, but weekly is for sure people listen to podcasts in a pattern.
They know that on Tuesday, their science podcast is gonna be out on Wednesday. Their financial podcast is gonna be out Thursday. Their baseball podcast is gonna be out. You need to hit people in a pattern you need to be consistent. Right. So I think one of the big things that most young creators struggle with is sustainability. Come up with an idea that you can do every week. Time up with an idea that you can do three times a week. Don’t come up with an idea that you can do for the next month, every day. And then you won’t do it for three months. Now. I won’t get you anywhere. Sustainability, predictability, consistency. Right. And I think that’s the thing.
I try and train into people more and more as I’ve become freelance, I’ve really understood that of where these people are. These people are going to expect you to be there consistently, and that you need to be there consistently. Otherwise, you’ll fall out of their reading habits, their subscription networks, the algorithms don’t push you. All those things start to happen. Right. And I think that, that seems to be the, the major problem I find. I, I, I remember when blogging was around, I learned this really early on. You’d go. This really good blog. Like they’d write a really good blog and everyone would be talking about it. So you’d race over there to read it.
And the first line would be something along the, I says, ah, sorry, I haven’t been blogging much recently. don’t tell people that, fix it or just put the, the product up either the product is good enough and you can do it or make sure that you are blogging recently every time find a, an ability to be able to do that. And so if you look at my YouTube and my, uh, podcast network, I have one podcast a week where I ask fans to ask me a question. I do no research. I may be with the Patreon questions, read them beforehand today. I didn’t even get a chance, right? Yeah. With the, the other podcast, literally most people at my level try and do famous people on their podcast.
Do you know how hard it is to get a famous person to mesh with your schedule? Famous people are busy. Being these people have got a lot of stuff going on. Everyone’s asking them, even if you’re really close personal friends with them, it’s hard to get them on. So what did I do? I went, okay. What if I get just everyone? I know anyone who’s smart. Who’s ever said anything. Who’s an expert on something in Cricket. I’ll just get them on. Every Wednesday. That episode goes up. There’s two days of the week. I don’t have to worry about anything. Right? YouTube it’s like, it’s so hard to do the big level content on YouTube all the time.
Right? How do we come up with really good YouTube videos that don’t take as much effort they can be produced quicker? Then I don’t need four animators running around with their ass on fire sustainability, sustainability, sustainability. You’re doing these podcasts. You’re not doing those videos. You could get a, you could double your audience like that. Oh, you’ve done this huge interview with me. Cut it up into four blog posts. Transcribe it one bit of content, for three different audiences. That’s what you need to be thinking. It’s hard to get someone like me on your podcast. Yeah, I’m only here because here because Arya told me about you and I followed you on Instagram and you sent me a message. That’s a lucky coincidence for you, right? Yeah. That all those things happen in a thing. It’s hard to get someone like me on, right? You’ve now got me on, what are you gonna do with this podcast? What if no one listens to it the first time?
Neha: I mean, I have like 127 episodes, so I do have a good listeners base.
Jarrod: But this will certainly, I think these 127 episodes could have been videos as well. Yeah. Hundred and 27 transcripts. Mm. Do you see what I’m saying? Yeah. Sustainability. It’s hard to get someone good on your podcast. When you get someone on, on your podcast, make the most out of it. I’ve just had Jarrod on my podcast. Here’s the transcript. Here’s what I thought about having Jared on my podcast. Do you see what I’m saying? Now? You’ve got two articles. Yeah. Now you do a YouTube video or a podcast about what it was like to interview me on your podcast. Exactly. Do you see what I’m saying? This is sustainability.
That’s what young creators have to work out. Instead, they burn up and they do heaps and then they flame away. I’ve seen it again and again, and again, work out how to be there day in, day out, day in, day out, day in, day out. Here’s my schedule. This is what I’m gonna do on Wednesdays. They know the podcast is gonna go up on Thursdays. They know the YouTube’s gonna go up Friday. They know I’m gonna do a bunch of clips on Instagram from the two on Saturday. I send out my, um, transcript, never send out on Saturday, send it out on Monday. um, that’s what you should be. That’s what everyone should be doing. And if not, they should do my course, which I tried to make cheap enough so that everyone could do it. If you wait a couple of weeks, all the podcast, the, and video stuff will be there.
Neha: I will definitely look to, you know, do the course and just, you know, uh, invest in sustainability and repurposing my content. And as much as I’d love to talk to you more and more, I can’t take a lot more of your time. So with this, we draw curtains on the episode. Thank you so much, Janet. You have no idea how much this interview means to me.
And it’s like, as I said, at the start, you will dream come true to interview you. So thank you so much for taking the time off your busy schedule. I know this must have been a really long day for you and for sharing such lovely insights and thoughts. I’m sure the listeners will, uh, love the episode and we’ll have so much to take away. This was a great collaboration. I hope we can do a lot more in the future as well.
Jarrod: You have to wonder why I gave you so much time. Was this a job interview because I might wanna hire you in the future? Hey, I’m gonna leave you with that. That’s gonna keep you up at night.
Neha: Yeah, really? Yeah. But, uh, thank you so much. And it really means a lot.
Jarrod: Cheers. No worries.